Author Interview: Truth That Sticks 2


One of the major topics being addressed in missions today is the topic of orality.  It is a matter of great significance, and will continue to be in the days to come, including in post-Christianized, western contexts.

In light of this matter, I want you to be aware of a new book that is hot off the press:  Truth That Sticks: How to Communicate Velcro Truth in a Teflon World. Avery Willis and Mark Snowden, experts in the area of orality, co-authored this work to help us understand the value of Bible Storying and how better to communicate the whole counsel of God to people who do not or will not read that much.

I recently asked Mark to share with us about this book, and his relationship with Avery Willis.  Unfortunately, Dr. Willis was not able to participate in this interview.  He passed away on July 30, of this year–about the time of the publication of their book.        

Avery T. Willis, Jr. was a pastor in Texas and Oklahoma for ten years and served as a missionary to Indonesia for fourteen years. He held a Th.D. in missiology and was the executive director of the International Orality Network.

Mark serves with the North American Mission Board and is a world-class Bible-storying trainer.  He developed an oral Bible for use among a predominantly Muslim people group in central Asia and currently trains church planters in Bible storying.  Mark and his wife, Mary Leigh, currently live in Alpharetta, Georgia.

Mark, give us a quick summary of the book.

Truth That Sticks brings Bible Storying and disciple-making together. The first half focuses on the re-discovering of biblical narrative in the 21st century and the second half includes the nuts of bolts of discipleship. At least half of the United States population has what has been called an “oral learning” preference. Around the world there are 4.35 billion people (70%) that are considered oral learners. The church can no longer advance on literate feet, but must communicate God’s truths with a world that is busy with other messages. That is why the book’s subtitle is “How to Communicate Velcro Truths in a Teflon World.”

In addition to the great number of oral learners in the world, what are some other reasons for writing this work?

Truth That Sticks is actually the second of a four-book series called DNA21 available through NavPress.com. TTS is the how-to and why-do-it book. When Avery and I were planning the book, it became evident that the book should be told in Avery’s voice. We felt that he would connect more, especially with influences and other leaders who needed to bring change. I caught Bible Storying right away because of my communications education and media production experience. Avery had taught expositional preaching, been a seminary president, wrote MasterLife (LifeWay 1996), which all require the highest levels of literacy. However, in the past 10 years, Avery struggled with how to enter the world of lostness among oral learners and seek to understand and make disciples.

Bible Storying is being used of the Lord among many churches and ministries in the U.S.  And we needed to share this news.  The book is really revolutionary to the literate elite that lead our churches. The book points out that we’re not making disciples as Jesus did, because He used stories, proverbs, and parables—common learning tools of oral learners. When we use literate means to communicate, we seal off those who have an oral learning preference.

What is Bible Storying and why is it important for Evangelicals today?

Evangelicals should sit up and recognize that Bible Storying makes disciples.  Avery and I called this “TruthSticks” methodology. God intended for us to use our senses–sight, hearing, touch, smell, and taste—to internalize His Word. Through our senses we learn, remember, and repeat things to others. God wired us to live and learn vicariously through Bible stories. Emotions etch memories so that when they are recalled, you feel as if were there again.

Believers want to be used of God to bring spiritual transformation. We aren’t interested just in conveying the right facts, the right values, and the right choices. People can feign Christianity and even become respected leaders. Hearing and grappling with the truths in the Bible is something different. And being able to pass it along in the real world outside of our church walls is what separates Bible Storying from any other methodology. Everyone can tell a story, but not everyone can remember the outline of a sermon, the fill-in-the-blank discipleship manual, or the analytical detail of most doctrinal positions.

What are the implications for the Church if half of the adults in the United States can only read basic printed material?

Our culture is driving a storytelling revival; it’s animated and 3-D. Yet most of our Bible studies, evangelism and discipleship, and preaching are based on linear and sequential thinking, and conveyed in print formats.  We are experiencing a groundswell of social and spiritual change that is largely the result of changes in our learning-style preferences.

God gave us His Word as a historical narrative. At least 70% of the Bible is continuous prose encapsulated in 500 to 700 stories. Most of our Bible studies, evangelism and discipleship, and preaching are based on linear and sequential thinking, and conveyed in print formats.

We must look at the spiritual shape of our believers and ask, “Are we making disciples?”

Avery insisted that we put in the book that pastors that try to make disciples from the pulpit by delivering a sermon is like someone trying to feed babies in a nursery by hosing them with milk. It can’t be done. Small groups is where the true discipling process begins.

Is there a difference between exegetical Bible teaching and Bible Storying?

In Bible Storying, the responsibility for learning swaps from the teacher to the learner. The learners will better internalize the truths in a passage when prompted by the small group leader – the facilitator. In TTS, we noted the difference between a hook and a club. A club is intended with a different purpose than a hook. What implement did a shepherd carry? A shepherd’s staff is universally depicted as a long hooked staff that could pull the sheep in the right direction. If smacked with a club, a startled lamb could dart in any direction. A club is like an exclamation mark (!) where a hook is like our question mark (?). We need to guide the lambs in a small group to analyze the truths as the Holy Spirit leads.  A small group leader then uses questions to guide the dialogue. The teacher turns into a facilitator who draws as the Holy Spirit is prompting.

TruthSticks uniquely focuses on the small group leader knowing the spiritual condition of his small group. He uses three different types of questions:

Head questions – gets the facts right – did they understand the story? Discipleship is more than just facts, but this is the place to focus on biblical accuracy.

Heart questions – probes at intent and choices made in the story – do they need to change?

Hand questions – personal application — holds believers accountable for making spiritual progress by giving assignments

What makes this book different from other books about evangelism?

When we think evangelism, we often think more about conversion and baptism than making disciples. However, making disciples of oral learners is an unbroken walk similar to the way God made each of us to grow into maturity. Believers go from being dead in sin to born again, then making progress from spiritual infant to child to young adult to parents who reproduce. No longer can we settle for methods that just add disciples to the kingdom. Making disciples among all peoples in the world—crossing the challenging religious, cultural, and political barriers—takes multiplication.

And although I appreciate a thorough biblical chronology linking story after story from creation to the cross, many times one well-placed Bible story can be used of the Lord in powerful ways. In the book, I related a conversation on an airplane with a college student who wanted to know the difference between works and salvation by grace. Rather than launch into a doctrinal analysis, I simply told the story of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15). By the time I finished the story, the young man caught the idea of the father extending grace to his repentant son without any works performed by the son. That kind of evangelism is unique to Bible Storying.

Why is Bible Storying such a great means of changing worldviews?

Everyone has a worldview that is largely shaped by the age of five. We get our sense of right and wrong by that age. Everyone has stories.  The truths of Bible stories begin to be caught by those who hear them. Stories allow us to live vicariously, not as voyeurs, but as an experiment into which we might insert our will and our own responses. Ultimately, we desire all believers to have a biblical worldview. We hear about Jonah running from God’s call and wonder if we could ever be guilty of something of that magnitude. Are we as busy as Martha to the point that we could miss listening to Jesus as her sister Mary was doing? Saul was so wrapped up in his own belief system that Jesus interceded on the road to Damascus. Would we try to cheat God and suffer the same fate as Ananias and Sapphira? Look at the worldview choices that we just experienced in these simple stories – running away, busyness, fanaticism, and stealing. Each are worldview values that are addressed by the truth of each Bible story. Truth That Sticks points out how worldviews apart from God’s plan become flimsy and need the stability that only the rock of God’s Truth can provide.

Why should American churches and church planters turn to Bible Storying as a way to make disciples?

God has brought us to a fullness of time in the 21st century to reach out to non-Christians by meeting in small home groups and telling Bible stories with an open agenda where non-Christians feel comfortable. People can enter a Bible Storying relational group at any point and feel that they can participate in listening to and telling stories and answering questions about them.

TruthSticks strategy of making disciples in open home groups is the perfect place to bring unbelievers, involve them in fellowship, share Bible stories with them and watch the Holy Spirit bring them to faith in Christ. Home groups can very easily transition into becoming new churches. New churches have proven to grow more quickly, and Bible Storying provides a way to help fan the flames of spiritual growth.

What are some encouraging things happening in the U.S. with Bible Storying?

In developing Truth That Sticks, I encountered more than a dozen ministries and churches that have found Bible Storying to work extremely well. Some of them were surprising such as what Campus Crusade was doing on the campus of the University of Central Florida with highly literate students. A new Southern Baptist church in Easley, South Carolina found that storying provided the right relational mix for their professionals. When the Navigators were working in a federal penitentiary in Louisiana, they were surprised that inmates had difficulty memorizing a single Bible verse from Romans, but could tell the story of Joseph spanning ten chapters. Probably one of the most outstanding models was one in a small town in northern Idaho where my co-author, Avery Willis, served as a consultant for several years. Real Life Ministries, in Post Falls, Idaho, was a church that grew from a handful of people to 8,500 in 10 years. Over three years, they transitioned several hundred small home groups to begin Bible Storying. I went to Idaho for a week and studied the church and its ministries. I found four keys to success when small group leaders kept their groups relational, supportive, transparent, and accountable.

What was it like to spend a year with the late Avery Willis while developing this book?

Avery Willis died just as the book was released by NavPress. Avery and I have worked together for more than 15 years in various missions-related roles. However, this was my first book project and his 19th! I was clearly the learner even though I had been working in Bible Storying through my relationship with pioneers Jim Slack and J. O. Terry since at least 1992. Just after we worked out the details of the book and I began the research phase behind the project, Avery began to have double vision and experience weakness. Throughout the writing, Avery often struggled physically, but never mentally or spiritually. Avery had a keen mind and rock-steady faith to the very end. We exchanged emails or talked about marketing the book until the week prior to his death. We worked on the project from April 2009 until his death July 30, 2010. In the last seven months, Avery had his high and low points as leukemia took its toll on his body. However, I only heard him try to redeem the remaining time, praying for healing, and brainstorming different projects he hoped to be able to accomplish if the Lord permitted. His death was not a shock or hurtful to me, but evoked a “wow.” He pressed toward the mark of the high calling on his life to the very end.

It was a privilege to finish this book with Avery and see it to completion. Al Gilbert, pastor of Calvary Baptist in Winston-Salem, North Carolina was among 23 church leaders who gave us rousing endorsements for Truth That Sticks. Al told me at Avery’s funeral that he had just learned of Avery’s death and when he told his secretary, she handed him a copy of Truth That Sticks. We know that God’s timing is perfect and as this legacy edition of the book is distributed, it is my prayer that all peoples will become disciples – including oral learners.

Thank you, Mark, for sharing with us about this work.

Let me encourage you to get a copy of Truth That Sticks: How to Communicate Velcro Truth in a Teflon World, and begin to apply its principles.


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